redwallfandomcom-20200223-history
Talk:Essay: Good v.s. Evil Rebuttal
Wow! Thanks for providing your input in this rebuttal! However, I do still think that my examples were good representations of some highly unlikely turnouts. Therefore, I'd like to offer a rebuttal of your rebuttal :). I agree that Janglur Swifteye was a very good warrior, but the Marlfox was still an expert assassin. Even though the latter was headstrong, Janglur should have experienced a small measure of difficulty in defeating such a formidable foe. If Martin had the bloodwrath, it is possible that he could have defeated Badrang easily, so your argument stands. In Triss, however, Trisscar had little experience with swordplay. Princess Kurda, on the other hand, had many years of practice. Sword skill is not a genetic trait that can be passed down to offspring. Though Triss may have had a high aptitude for learning how to wield a sword, she would not have been able to achieve a level of skill without practicing. She was probably not able to train with the sword during her years at Riftgard and was on the run for most of her life away from Riftgard. Without any training, she was able to put Princess Kurda to flight without receiving a single scratch or using any effort. Though there is a slim or good chance that the goodbeasts could have defeated each of these villains, whether or not they could defeat them was not my original question. My question was why none of the evil creatures (except for Fenno and Cluny) can defeat a skilled goodbeast in a one-on-one match. The villains need not win--the heroes could escape death or be aided by an outside force (e.g. the snake in Pearls of Lutra; the Joseph Bell in Redwall). Many of these evil beasts don't even cause any difficulty for the heroes. In my opinion, it would be much more satisfying if the villains presented a greater challenge to the heroes, before going down. Dannflor 21:03, 1 December 2008 (UTC) I agerge its is a poss that martin had blood warth .... --Dannflow Talk! 21:38, 1 December 2008 (UTC) but the vilin should kill a main chrarcter In My Opinon.. Think about the fact that many humans have been able to do incredible things. Even when they had no knowledge whatsoever of how to acomplish it. Instinct, adrenalin, what have you. They were able to do it. Well what about animals? In Redwall. They are the exact same way. They are possesed with the bloodrath, and often have the natural instincts of a warrior. There have been creatures aided by a spirit too. It's usually Martin's. Martin did in fact suffer from bloodrath. You can see that when he's battling Tsarmina, and in all his battles while traveling to Noonvale. In Marshank, he attacked the slavemaster and Badrang himself before he was even free. Then afterwards. Led the charge in that final conflict. When it comes to swordskill being passed on thru genes...I dont believe that it is skill. It is instinct. For Redwall's Warriors, it comes naturally. I think it's also just being hotheaded. So, Triss didn't need training to know how to wield a blade. The power had always been in her. And with Jangular...that Marlfox had a weakness. He didn't believe that the woodlanders could defend themselves. But they could. Jangular was not only protecting his own family, but the other Redwallers as well. That should be reason enough for him to be able to kill the fox. C.S.maid Talk! 22:06, 1 December 2008 (UTC) Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Charie. Those are all valid arguments, but they still don't account for the fact that no villains ever win against a hero. Also, I would think that the evil creatures would have instincts of their own that conferred certain advantages. If all of the heroes' victories were a result of instinct and adrenaline, I would expect an unskilled villain to defeat a seasoned hero. With Martin the Warrior on their side, the heroes do have a clear advantage, but that would necessitate Martin's intervention in every single duel between hero and villain. It would also mean that their victories were due to Martin's help and not their own skill. Anyways, thanks again for responding! Dannflor 05:22, 2 December 2008 (UTC) Thank You, C.S. Maid I disagree with your argument about Trisscar. Wasn't Trisscar a slave for Princess Kurda who use to perfect her skill in Swordplay. I think you would agree that Triss after hearing about her father and his skill in Swordplay and and must have longed to be like her father and perhaps memorized how to use a blade. OR...... Triss had been the slave of Kurda for a long time helping her memorize her usual moves and used it as a weakness. Perhaps...........--Deyna the Mighty Talk! 16:06, 15 November 2008 (UTC) 03:35, 3 December 2008 (UTC) Response to "Thank You, C.S. Maid" Hmmm, this is getting to be quite a popular talk page :). I agree that Triss probably learned a bit about swordplay from watching Princess Kurda. She probably learned the basic parries and thrusts by simply observing. However, you must actually practice the moves yourself to achieve a degree of skill with a weapon. You can know a technique by heart by observing how it's done, but you have to perform it yourself to develop coordination. As an amateur martial artist, I know that I can watch a person perform a form a thousand times but will be unable to perform that form unless I actually practice it. Did Triss practice with a sword in secret? I don't really know, but it appears that if she had, she would have been caught. The guards were very wary of leaving a slave in a room full of weapons, as the book indicates. As for your argument that Triss knew Kurda's weaknesses, Kurda would have to have a very limited store of techniques for Triss to predict every one. Two fencing students training side-by-side usually can't predict each other's moves. I highly doubt that Triss could predict Kurda's moves with absolute certainty. Also, even if one knew one's opponent's imminent move, it would require coordination and speed to deflect the attack. Triss had little time to build up this coordination and speed, while Kurda had the long years of experience backing her. In any case, thanks for letting me know what you thought! Dannflor 18:27, 5 December 2008 (UTC) Just clearing things up Martin II was not descended from Martin the Warrior - he was the grandson of Matthias. - Sissismay Entirley correct, Sissimay! Although it is possible that a distant cousin of Windred remained at St. Ninian's and was Matthias's ancestor. I wish BJ would put some of those facts in the Sable Quean. --The great grandson of whoever the heck Matthais's father was. 05:21, 6 February 2009 (UTC) Martin2 Triss vs. Kurda --Gandr Adderbane 23:41, November 26, 2009 (UTC)Based on the description of Kurda's training session, she practiced swordplay on stationary targets, I doubt that such training would help when fighting an opponent who can actually move and attack, turnips arn't a good way to simulate fighting a real opponent. Kurda probably had little experience in blocking attacks. Triss alo had a superior weapon.